Looking for people: to brainstorm how a new open source digital payment platform could be done

Hi.

I am looking for interested people to do initial brainstorming as to how a new open source digital payment platform could be done.
The platform already exists - it is open source and as such can be used freely. However, as this is payment industyr we are talking about, the legal requirements are strict and many. This includes raising certain amount of capital necessary to obtain the license to operate (PSD2 license), compliance requirements, KYC, security requirements etc…
My vision is to run this platform and use it for digitalpayments on websites and in apps, possibly other solutions too, but to run it as a profitable business that would give all its profits to planet greening and cleaning projects. Profit is everything that is left after paying blls and wages. Wages would be decent, but not outrageous, not even for the CEO, CTO or Founders. Nobody would get millions. The gap between the highest wage and lowest wage would be limited to 1 to 4 or 1 to 5, or even less than that if possible. There would be no worldwide empire, but we woudl instead run this thing inthe Eurozone, and share the knowledge and experience with people who may want to set things up in a similar way in any country or region.
The legal setup could be something like this: an NGO (new or estbalished one?) would own all the shares, and we would have an agreement with them to not pay dividends, or to pay them and then they are obliged to distribute all of it to the greening and cleaning projects. This is all to be discussed - how to do it, why? What is the best way and why?
We would take the business away from paypal and similar platforms and give it back to the planet. Paypal pays its executives and shareholders millions, and what gets done with those millions? Probably offshore accounts, luxury yachts, private jets and other such things.
So… the brainstorming would then be: what is needed for such a venture, and who can help start it?
The other questions are: the best way to organise a brainstorming session? Simply jitsi? Or other tools too? Online? Or physical venue? I am based in the Tarn, about half way between Toulouse and Montpellier…
Keep cool, eat a lot of melons and keep in the shade if you can.
Interested in all your thoughts
Thanks and hope to see you soon

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I am interested person.

The platform already exists == details?

the legal requirements are strict and many == historically when this was not so, criminal activity was high.

My vision is to run this platform == You run this platform? What are your qualifications?

Wages would be decent, but not outrageous, not even for the CEO, CTO or Founders == Nice idea, but let things run course and see what happens.

There would be no worldwide empire, but we woud instead run this thing in the Eurozone == Nice idea, but let things run course and see what happens.

an NGO would own all the shares == So this would be a corporation? public or private?

we would have an agreement with them == Who is we? Them would probaby want to be included in we.

We would take the business away from paypal == If you ask nicely, paypal might sell the business to you.

Paypal pays its executives and shareholders millions == Paypal is successful. Many successful business pays its executives and shareholders millions.

what is needed for such a venture == I suspect qualified people and money and goverment support.

and who can help start it? == What help are you asking for? Money or advice?

the best way to organise a brainstorming session? == The best way is to post in Looking for people: to brainstorm how a new open source digital payment platform could be done

You answered to all my questions with questions and sure, they all need to be asked. The answers will come as the project takes shape.
The platform is this GNU Taler

You say you are interested - but you don’t say in what? In taking part in an online brainstorming session? Or something else?

The point of this project would be to return the profits to the planet greening and cleaning projects (and how that cna be done is open to suggestions). I believe that it is necessary for humanity to start creating the jobs that we all actually need on this planet to be able to survive;

Hopefully, gradually we can acheive some kind of balance between the jobs that destroy the planet and the jobs that help clean and green it. To that end this would be a Profit-for-Purpose venture, or what some call not-for-profit - for some theory and some examples, here’s some reading material. https://arxiv.org/ftp/arxiv/papers/1902/1902.01398.pdf

Or here is another example https://www.radicallyopensecurity.com/ of a company run in a similar way: they make profits and give all their profits away to a cause of their choice.

If the open source digital payments platform is not run like that, but just like any other corporation whose aim will be to extract ‹ value › from society and pour it into the founders/CEO’s or shareholders’ pockets - to my mind there is no point in that. Plenty of companes already do that, and as you say, they are successful. Their success, though, has led to the huge problems of pollution etc on this planet and the current trajectory self-terminates (so is success really a success?). The point of this venture would be to try and do something about that.

GNU Taler I could not find link to download software. I could not find instructions how to get the software. documentation says “Open source” is something different. If the software does not exist or I can not get it, then there is no sense of me studying it.

I am interested to do initial brainstorming.

I think a profitable business should be started and well established before much effort is put into choosing what to do with the profits.

If The main point of this project would be to planet greening and cleaning, then it would be much easier to bypass the commercial business part, and concentrate on the planet greening and cleaning part. (If the bypass is agreed, there will be much to talk about here).

I remember hearing somewhere that when ancient people had the job of hunting and gathering, thier life was much easier and they had more liesure time than today. The jobs that we all actually need on this planet to be able to survive have been greatly decreased by implimenting technology. Machines have replaced people. For example: tractors and mechinized harvesting equipment, trains and trucks, irrigation and water pumps. So people found new jobs doing and making things that are not necessary for survival. For example, going to school and sending space probes to mars.

If you are worried about the balance of jobs, politics might be the best solution.

And that is all I have to brainstorm for now. I await your reply.

« I think a profitable business should be started and well established before much effort is put into choosing what to do with the profits. » I can see what you are saying and in one sense I agree.

However, in my view it is important to have a vision of what you wan to achieve and the general direction of where you want to go. For most startups,as far as I can tell, the main idea is to exit in x amount of years as a rich man or woman and meanwhile to do whatever makes money.

My aim is not that.
May aims are different, for which you advise me to go into politics. But what exactly would be the point of that when we know that politicians are held by their you-know-whats by the various lobbies? Not for me, thank you.

« If The main point of this project would be to planet greening and cleaning, then it would be much easier to bypass the commercial business part, and concentrate on the planet greening and cleaning part. (If the bypass is agreed, there will be much to talk about here). » My vision is that this fintech project will serve as a means of perpetual funding for greening and cleaning projects. Much needs to be done in that way precisely because machines have done so much damage. We have tractors, and pumps, but are running out of water due to our bad land management practices using those tractors and pumps.

My vision is that this project will fund precisely the projects for which no funding is easy to find: those ones that require longterm support (such as reforesting, food forests etc) and from which there may not be monetary returns ever. (unless we destroy them once again and sell the family silver once again)

Like I said, the vision is important because it will dictate the kind of legal structures that need to be set up to make it all possible. Not forgetting that there is a lot of work in lifting it all off the ground and running it on the day to day basis. But, to me, this all seems meaningful and I hope to attract other people who are looking for meaningful work - my impression is that there are many.
Take care. Keep cool.

In my point of view, the most advanced payment ecosystem open-source oriented is https://opencollective.com/
Followed by https://liberapay.com/

And for me, the future of open-source payment platform is crypto-money oriented to be able to scale down to small project without legal bureaucracy. But i’m not sure actual crypto-money platform have reach the easy of use need to be usable by anybody who want to pay.

the last time I looked it up, open collective receives donations via paypal, credit cards or bank transfers. In the future it wwill be able to also receive donations via the new platform, which is taler based and let’s give it a working name of OpenPay.

An answer was not given for this problem, so I say it again: I could not find link to download the software GNU Taler.

EarthlingIB says we can acheive some kind of balance between the jobs that destroy the planet and the jobs that help clean and green it. I rephraise my answer: an already implimented solution is politics and there are lobbies that bring that idea to politicians. In fact, EarthlingIB is now lobbying that idea to the public in this thread. I do not understand EarthlingIB answer or hesitation which states: what exactly would be the point of that when we know that politicians are held by their you-know-whats by the various lobbies? OK, EarthlingIB does not want to use politics. There are already volunteer groups. And they DO lobby elected government officials. Elsewhere EarthlingIB says we have bad land management practices. I agree that some practices are not perfect, but I maintain that the answer is politics.

EarthlingIB says no funding is easy to find for reforesting. I think reforesting does not need much funding, but rather it needs volunteers that cooperate with government. And that is what happens. I have seen it. I have volunteered myself in some cleanup projects, organized by groups, and cooridnated with government. That is politics in action.

EarthlingIB has a good vision, but this thread is greatly lacking details for fintech project. And there are already other established companies that donate thier profits. I suspect paypal donates something to greening and cleaning.

1000i100 mentions the biggest problem I see with the fintech project: legal bureaucracy. But EarthlingIB seems to be mindset on using fintech project. What other methods of income will work for this? EarthlingIB seems to be mindset on greening and cleaning. What other good things can be done with profits? As this is brainstorming, all options should be considered.

My point would be precisely to not rely on unpaid volunteers to do the all important work of regenerating our ecosystems on which we all depend, but to find a way of paying people for that, so they can do it full time.

If you go to the website I gave you, there are installation instructions - although they are not in the shape you may be accustomed to - download and click, click, click, done.

From your comments I see that you disagee with almost everything I said - and yet you want to brianstorm, you say. I don’t see how that can work - if you do, please share.

At the moment it looks like this to me: let’s imagine we are in an airplane factory and I say I think we need to brainstorm about a particular project, for which I see a need. Then you come and say - no we don’t. And we don’t need that project at all. And we don’t need airplanes at all. We all have legs, we can walk, and let the brids fly - they already have wings.

Which, fair enough, is one possible answer. Although not exactly supporting the project but drawing the energy away from it. Which may be hte correct thing to do, in which case, there really is no need to brainstrom. However, so far, I do indeed see the need.

If there is a brianstorming session, ie I find people who see what I’m on about and think they might be interested to support the project with all the aims I already stated, then I’ll let you know and if you feel like it, you may come along.

Take care.

You are correct, thank you for bringing that to my attention. It looks like this thread has criticism, Debate, argue, along with some brainstorm. You may pick out from this thread the new ideas and solutions, that is your brainstorm.

Definition of brainstorm: to try to solve a problem or come up with new ideas by having a discussion that includes all members of a group. to discuss a problem or issue and suggest solutions and ideas. to suggest a lot of ideas for a future activity very quickly before considering some of them more carefully.

Focus on quantity
Withhold criticism
Welcome unusual ideas
Combine and improve ideas

Debate is a process that involves formal discourse on a particular topic.
Definition of argue: to give reasons for or against something.
lobby: a group of persons engaged in lobbying especially as representatives of a particular interest group. In politics, lobbying, persuasion or interest representation is the act of lawfully attempting to influence the actions, policies, or decisions of government officials.

  1. Install Peertube server.
  2. Install the Hive-Tube plugin to monetize all streams for the creators, site host and site visitors. There’s no middlemen like Paypal, and no licenses or KYC is needed either.
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Check out vigilante.tv - they installed the Hive-Tube plugin on their Peertube server. Now they earn, the video creators earn, and even the visitors to the site earn a passive income from it.

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Thank you agorise. You seem to be familiar with Peertube server. Terms of use for shared hosting usuially do not allow file sharing and video streaming, so I guess the best platform for Peertube is Vitutal Private Server? And I will neeed domain name and storage for videos. Can you recommend a website hosting service with all that in USA? What total cost? I tried to install Peertube on localhost to test it, too many problems, got tired and quit. Would someone like to volunteer install, setup, run, etc?

To reply to the above post, go to Volunteer webmaster wanted.

Yep, use a VPS or Dedicated.
I doubt anyone is going to be your sysadmin or webmaster for free. To find one though, you might try posting a job offer on one of the job sites out there.

I see agorise is correct. It has been nearly one day with no reply. Why is it so hard to find someone who can install and setup Peertube? What skills and time does it take? How many people have done the install and setup? This webmaster subject is off-topic here, so please reply at the other topic.

Hi,
I am José Relland, from Troyes.

Very good idea :).

In October 2021, I have had a conference call on Open source payment platform.
with:

I contacted them to discuss on « FLOSS Alternative to stripe for blue card payment ».

The answer, by this time, was: « it’s a more legal problem than a technical problem ».
They add, according to their experience «Open source is not an easy option due to the fact the code is public and the authority in charge to validate the application for the banking sector are not open to this. ».

This is the only experience I have on this topic :)…
I encourage you to contact these persons I mentioned above (perhaps already done). They are very friendly and open to share their experience.

Perhaps other « professional resources » (you could know too)

I wish you the best for you and your project.
Do not hesitate to contact for more information or actions.

Friendly; José

Hi,

My first contribution (if possible)… to have a « hybrid » online payment platform?
for:

Have a nice day :).

Hi José.
Thanks for your reply. I did get in touch with Christian Grothoff and he made some nice noises.

I did get in touch with Bank of France too, to ask what would be required. They asked me what legal structure I had in mind - and at that time I didn’t see it clearly. I thought a coop of some kind would be nice, but in the case of a coop there is an obligation to distribute the profits to the members - which I don’t want to do. My reasons are - potentially there could be some profit here with which we could do better things than distribute it to individuals to spend on whatever they please.

My current view is that there needs to be some kind of non-profit (association or foundation in France) that would be the sole shareholder and which would distribute those profits to certain regenerative projects (details to be worked out).
That organisation would be the owner of the business part -which would earn its money like any other payment platform - by charging a certain percentage of each transaction. This business part would be set up as a company, although exactly which legal structure would be best suited is open to suggestions and still to be defined at this point.

With the view of the feedback you got from the experts you contacted, it seems I need to get back to the Bank of France to enquire if it is at all possible to obtain a license to operate an open source payment platform commercially within the eurozone.

And if they say no, then I would hope that they would give me a reason why not, and maybe then their concerns can be somehow addressed for the license to become possible. There is a lot of open source software out there, and some of it is run commercially, so the fact that we are talking about open source does not have to be a show stopper, per se. If their concerns are security etc, we can perform a security audit, address any concerns etc… I’ll try to obtain an official answer to that from the authorities.
Meanwhile… any other constructive thoughts, wellcome.
Thank you veyry much for your links - some I am familiar with and some not yet.
Have fun.
Keep in touch
Ivana

A quick update,
I got a reply from Bank of France (which is in charge of licensing fintech in France) and they say as long as the security, user data etc reuirements re satified, the regulator is technlogy neutral. Their words.

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